Ben Price of WND Ventures joins Jason to discuss how one of the country’s largest general contractors approaches innovation. WND is the venture arm of DPR Construction, connecting startups with teams inside DPR to test emerging technologies on real projects - and, when those pilots succeed, potentially investing in the companies behind them. Ben explains how DPR evaluates new tools, balances internally developed technology with off-the-shelf solutions, and separates genuine value from compelling demos. They also explore the potential of AI, robotics, and prefabrication, why construction’s technological transformation is still in its earliest innings, and what founders should know before approaching a major contractor.
Ben Price joins Jason to explain how WND Ventures - the venture arm of DPR Construction - connects startups with one of the country’s largest general contractors. WND helps emerging technology companies test their products on active DPR projects and may invest when those pilots demonstrate real value.
Ben breaks down how DPR evaluates new tools, balances internally developed technology with off-the-shelf solutions, and moves successful pilots toward broader adoption. They discuss WND’s strategic-first investment model, its work with Dusty Robotics, and the growing roles of AI, robotics, prefabrication, and automation in construction.
They also explore why the industry remains in the early innings of its technological transformation, how contractors can avoid chasing shiny objects, and what founders should understand before approaching a major construction company.
In this epiosode:
Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction
02:20 – Ben’s path into venture capital and construction
07:20 – DPR Construction and the evolution of WND Ventures
12:00 – Piloting technology before investing
13:20 – How WND works with DPR’s internal innovation team
15:10 – Defining strategic success beyond financial returns
16:20 – Dusty Robotics as a model for adoption at scale
17:40 – Thesis-driven investing versus opportunistic deal flow
20:20 – Strategic fit for DPR versus broader market potential
31:20 – Building technology internally and spinning out new companies
34:00 – Closing the gap between off-the-shelf tools and individual AI workflows
35:20 – How new technology spreads across DPR projects
37:30 – Is construction technology saturated or still nascent?
39:50 – How AI could transform construction
41:20 – Robotics, automation, and the future construction workforce
43:30 – Avoiding shiny objects and scaling technology thoughtfully
45:20 – Building a more rigorous pilot and evaluation process
47:20 – WND’s areas of interest, from robotics to prefabrication
49:40 – Advice for founders who want to work with DPR and WND
51:30 – Closing thoughts
Show notes:
Jason Jacobs: [00:00:00] Welcome to BuiltForward, the podcast exploring where construction is heading over the next decade and how AI and other emerging technologies will and won't transform the industry. I'm Jason Jacobs, a longtime startup founder, investor, and the host. Let's get into it
Today's guest is Ben Price from WND Ventures, which is the venture arm of DPR Construction. DPR Construction is one of the largest general contractors in the country, and WND sits at a really interesting intersection between DPR and the startup ecosystem. The team looks for new technologies that can solve real problems inside DPR, helps pilot them on actual projects, and in some cases, invests once there's evidence that it's working.
That has been an interesting vantage point into something I've been thinking a lot about lately. With more and more construction technology being built and [00:01:00] AI making it easier to build even more, how do you separate what's actually useful from another shiny demo? We talk in this episode about how DPR evaluates and adopts new technology, the role of internally built versus off-the-shelf tools, where AI and robotics might have the biggest impact, and why Ben thinks we're still early in the construction transformation.
It's a great discussion, and I hope you enjoy it. Ben Price, welcome to the show
Ben Price: Hi, Jason. Great to be here. Excited to have this conversation
Jason Jacobs: I am too. Yeah. Um, uh, I mean, we, uh, we chatted, I think it was a few weeks ago through Thai's introduction at, um, at MCJ and, um, and gosh, DPR is such an interesting firm and such a major player in the construction world. And then WND Ventures not only, um, is interesting in terms of the, you know, the capital you're deploying, but al- i-i- and the strategy, but also the approach.
So, um, and it's, you know, quite different than a lot of the other CVCs that I've talked to over the years. So [00:02:00] excited to have you on and, uh, and, and, and learn more about it. Thank you for making the time.
Ben Price: Yeah. Thank you, and it's, um, it's a hugely exciting company. I mean, to be a part of a company that's growing at this rate and has the kind of culture and, and, um, and kind of background and surrounding pieces of it, and then WND Ventures, I think you're completely right. We're doing some unique things that, um, hopefully are, are m- are driving a real impact.
So
Jason Jacobs: Uh, well, well, well, for starters, um, maybe just give us some context on how you found your way into venture and how you found your way into construction.
Ben Price: Sounds great. Yeah, so I started my career in strategy consulting, and I was largely focused on all things innovation, so helping corporates develop a new innovation program or figure out their innovation post, uh, post-merger or, or acquisition. Um, and so wide range of experiences. One day I was with Caterpillar in Peoria, Illinois, [00:03:00] in the corn fields, and the next day I had a client of a beauty and makeup company in Paris and, and, uh, New York City. Um, so that, uh, wide range of clients, industries, all of that. And independent of work, I was always really interested in venture, um, and startup companies. And so I started a... This was kind of before the, the time of AngelList, um, but, um, pulling together, helping to support or very early stage founders, um, to raise very s- kind of early, smaller tranches of capital.
So I called it a microfund, and it was really just a, a good way to see a lot of deals and get my foot in, in the door into the venture space. Um, and so strategy consulting mixed with some of this kind of angel investing, uh, investment syndicating, um, lent itself very well to corporate VC So I, I came across that whole world and, um, ended up going to Saint-Gobain, which [00:04:00] is the largest building materials manufacturer in the world. It's a f- a French, um, conglomerate, um, in the kind of like 40 to 50-plus billion a year revenue. Um, and so when I joined, it was, uh, I would say the early days of the, the Nova Ventures team investing. They're, they had only made one or two investments prior to, to, um, my time there, and it was really... It was a great opportunity to very aggressively start deploying a lot of capital and, and leading to a, a lot of partnerships. So we were e- probably every quarter making a few investments, um, across all different types of construction tech companies, um, and going to all the events, meeting all the, the investors, all the founders, and, and kind of breaking into this, this ecosystem. Um, so was there for four, four or five years and, and, um, then I went to-- I spent time with Orbia Ventures where it was, it was three of [00:05:00] us on the team investing i- initially a pledge of 130 million to invest across deep tech companies.
Um, and so it was climate tech, deep tech, um, all kind of like industrial, a lot of hardware, also software-focused. Um, and I, I would say there one element was on, was specific to construction, but also learned a lot from looking at and comparing construction to some of these other industries like agriculture, for example, or other chemical manufacturing or, or mining. Um, so spent, spent a few years there investing in a, a number of companies, a lot of robotics, a lot of m- materials, energy, um, kind of broadly infrastructure and, and industrial types of, uh, of companies. Um, and then from there, spent some time with Umdasch Group, which is an Austrian company that is a, a global leader in scaffolding and formwork solutions. Um, and so [00:06:00] was, was leading growth for North America, looking at opportunities to invest in companies and acquire, um, to grow, grow revenue in North America. So all of that long journey that got me to the WND Ventures team, I actually knew my teammates, um, fro- and, and people across the DPR team, um, for... I've known them for a handful of years and was really excited when, um, Kaushal reached out saying there's, uh, there, the team's growing and there may be some opportunities to get involved.
So, uh, so that's the, that's the background, and I actually, I joined it, uh, about four months ago, so I'm still, still in the early stages of, um- Still in the early months with, with DPR and WND Ventures, but it's been an incredible, um, experience of just, uh, being a part of a company that is growing at such a rapid rate and is so open to [00:07:00] innovation and, and, um, it's...
I, I've said it's ki- it's almost like playing corporate venture on easy mode, where I come in with a lead or an idea, a, a technology, and people across the business are, are-- have their hands raised and jumping up and down to, to be able to pilot and work with and kind of learn more and explore working with the companies. So it's a, it's a great backdrop to help identify, work, partner with, and, and, um, and I guess increase adoption in, in working with, with different, different startup technologies.
Jason Jacobs: Uh-huh. And then maybe just a quick, um, uh, two-pronged evolution of, of DPR and then of, of WND, like, you know, kinda when it formed, why it formed, how it formed, and, and, um, uh, and, and where you guys are at today
Ben Price: That's great. Yeah, so I'll, I'll start with DPR and then I'll get into k- WND. Um, but DPR, uh, ENR top, [00:08:00] top five, um, GC, um, a lot of kind of more technical projects. So, so the categories are technology or I, I kinda think of that bucket as primarily data centers right now. Um, the other, the others are hospitals, labs, higher education, so universities, um, and then some...
And commercial buildings as well. Um, but a lot of the, the projects are across these kind of more, more technical types of projects and, and buildings. Um, so that's the, that's... I'd say the, the company was, was, um, based initially or, or started in, in California, headquarters in Santa Clara. Um, but a, a growing, growing footprint, um, glo- in the US and globally. Um, and I, I always say when you think about DPR, there's a couple, couple of kind of core things. One is this focus on innovation and ability to try and adopt new, new technologies and new approaches very quickly. [00:09:00] The second is, um, a focus on prefab. Uh, so DPR is very much a leader in a, in prefabricating different various components, um, and kind of driving forward the increase in efficiency through industrialization of construction. Um, and the third, third category or third element that I always, always share is, um, DPR's, uh, large, large proportion of, of self-performing. Um, and so there, there's a stat, it's something like if the drywall business was it, its own separate standing drywaller, they'd be one of the largest in, in the US. Um, and so large percentage, large portion of all work within DPR is self-performed. And DPR is a, actually a family of companies where within the family of companies, there's an electrical business, there's a, there's a, um, equipment rental, um, business. So think like a, like a United Rentals. Um, and so what that means is, [00:10:00] and I guess that's the segue into WND Ventures, having all of that, um, kind of infrastructure around DPR is y- it, it's an amazing backdrop to then invest and work with startup companies who lack the larger infrastructure. So if we're gonna use the, um, equipment example, so OES is the name of the business that is equipment, equipment rental. Um, and so i- in theory, WND Ventures can work with, invest in a company. DPR i- in, in a hardware company, let's say, DPR can use that, use that company, work with that, that technology. Um, And OES can provide the supply chain, the servicing, the warehousing, uh, that whole kind of e- element of it.
Um, and so, so bringing kind of all of those pieces together, it, I think it, it very well lends itself to, to supporting, [00:11:00] um, new technologies and rolling out different, different, different technologies across, across construction. Um, so then looking at WND Ventures specifically, so we're, we're a small team. We, um, have, have a, had, or, or inv- the group has been investing for a long time.
Um, and I, I would say initially started more kind of like angel investments from the company, and has evolved into a, a much more kind of, um, I guess formal, formal CVC pro- type of program. Um, we typically are in the earlier stage, focus on the earlier stage investments in the hundreds of thousands. Um, but there, there's flexibility and I'd say evolution within, within the group to look at different types of, um, different stages and different check sizes depending on each situation.
So there's a lot of kind of flexibility [00:12:00] based on, on each investment opportunity or, or, um, any situation. And, and I would say the, um, the, the primary focus it's, it, it's strategic first, and so we will invest typically after an initial proof of concept or a rapid proof of concept is completed with the business. Um, and that's when we'll, we'll get involved from, from the financial and kind of more, more for- formalized partnership standpoint. Um,
Jason Jacobs: With the business meeting with DPR
Ben Price: exactly. Yep. So, so concept being meet with a company, um, you know, get excited about potentially working with them, then pilot or do a, do a proof of concept or a rapid proof of concept.
So u- use that, use their technology on one project or open a sandbox and do kind of like a test version of, of using their technology. Um, and then from there if that goes well, um, and then we have kind of like a path or a vision towards [00:13:00] how we could roll this out across more projects, that's when it can make a lot of sense to invest in the company and, and become that much more kind of strategically aligned with, um, with whatever the company is
Jason Jacobs: Uh, so does DPR have an internal innovation team that's focused inwards on DPR operations? And if so, where does that sit relative to the WND Ventures team? And then same question for WND. Do you view your focus as strictly external and market-facing, or do you look inwards as well?
Ben Price: Yeah, great questions. And, and yes, there is the innovation team, um, that we work hand-in-hand with. Um, so we, we're constantly trying to, uh, align our priorities, align the areas that we're looking at. Um, and so the innovation team will be, will have a direct view into, um, the various business groups and help kind of define w- what, what the top priorities are when it comes to new, finding new solutions. [00:14:00] Um, and so, so we'll work-- A lot of that will help advise us, and in some cases, there will be internal R&D type of, of focuses of, you know, how do we, how do we solve this, this problem that was identified? And then the other component of that or another component of that is investing externally, seeing what, what startups are out there, what other companies have, have developed. Um, so I, I would say then with d- WND Ventures, our focus, I always describe it almost as 50/50, where half of the time is spent looking externally, trying to see what, where's the capital going, what are the excited com- exciting companies, um, what founders are starting new, new companies, um, kind of the, the classical VC outward-looking approach.
And then the other half is internal, trying to find, um, trying to find basically [00:15:00] gaps or opportunities to, to fill them with, with technology that we can find externally. Um, so we're kind of almost the, the broker or the middleman between the different users, um, which includes the innovation groups and then the, the various groups within DPR and then the external startup, uh, ecosystem.
Jason Jacobs: So when you invest in a company, um, what does success look like, um, in, in terms of the outcome of that investment directionally?
Ben Price: So while typically, I mean, the typical answer f- answer for a VC is it's all about the r- the return and the, the financial exit and, and what that looks like. That is obviously important and something that, that we look at. Um, but we also, I'd say, go, go beyond that, where the focus can be even more impactful from a strategic standpoint.
So is the company some... Is the, is the technology, um, something that we use on a large number of projects? Does it help us [00:16:00] improve our quality, our productivity, our safety, um, kind of, uh, across any of these, these areas? Um, and so, a- and so the, the ultimate win for us is something, invest in a company, help direct them, and help, help them kind of further align or, or better align with, um, with DPR's groups that are using, u- using the technology. Um, and then support adoption across multiple or ideally all of our projects. Um, and then also have that, e- eventually have that financial, uh, win or, or exit. Um, and so I'll, I'll give an example, um, of, of one that's been a really, really interesting, really successful case study for, for WND Ventures and, and DPR. Um, the company Dusty Robotics. Uh, so DP- or WND invested early in the company, helped on the development and, and [00:17:00] working very closely with the team. Um, it's something where, um, DPR is a large customer and relying on, on Dusty Robotics across projects, uh, all over. Um, and so that, it's, it's a perfect example of kind of started more exploratory, um, piloting them on a few different projects, and it's, it saved so mu- so much time and, and such a valuable, valuable tool to use that it's, um, it's been, i- i- it's been a kind of like clear path to, to increase adoption and get it deployed a- across projects. Um, so that model, that idea, um, is something that we're, we're constantly trying to replicate of find the next thing, use it or prove it on a project or two, and then from there, uh, hopefully it's, uh, it spreads to every other project.
Jason Jacobs: And it's a, it's a bit chicken or egg, but I'm just trying to visualize, like, how much of it is thesis-driven where you know you have X many holes to fill, [00:18:00] and here's the holes from a DPR standpoint, and you're out trying to find them, versus opportunistically just meeting interesting founders doing interesting things and then coming back and seeing if you can get buy-in to do a pilot.
Like, like, what's the mix? And, and, and w- and if you had to, um, uh, you know, rotate heavier towards one side or another, um, where do you lean?
Ben Price: It's a great question, and I think, I think in the past, or traditionally, WND has been, it's been more opportunistic, and that's just due to, I think, the reputation of DPR and the, the strong opportunities that come internally, where, you know, a small team working on this, um, that's inundated with amazing leads, the best, the best founders and most promising startup companies.
They, they come in from our VC partners, from other corporates. Um, and so it- it's, uh, it's kind of when you, when you have so many leads and so many [00:19:00] opportunities, it's hard to not be opportunistic and, and approach it, things that way. Um, I w- I would say it's a, a current push that we're having to continue to move on the opportunistic, you know, great things that come in, but also build out a more thesis-driven approach. So at any given time, we'll have a certain area that we're committed to hopefully meeting all of the companies and vetting and, and really diving into. Um, and then coming out with a conclusion of, do we want to invest? Who do we want to invest in? Also, what strategy? Do we wanna take a, um, you know, m- wait and see versus invest in one company, kinda pick our horse and go with them? Um, so there, there's a, uh, there's a lot of outcomes from that kind of thesis-driven or deep dive d- driven approach, but it's something that we're increasing our focus on of, um, of mixing, mixing the two. But we're always going to have a large amount of this [00:20:00] opportunistic, um, focus of, you know, a great lead comes in or a, a partner of ours makes an introduction, and we can't help but, uh, but m- make the introductions internally and, and move on them.
So I, I'd say m- maybe, maybe, uh, 60/40, maybe it's a little bit more than that on the opportunistic side. Um, but we're, we're definitely spending a, spending time and, and becoming, uh, increasingly intentional about defining our thesis areas or, or our deep dives and then going after them.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, one of the things that I've been hearing consistently as I've been learning about the space is just how differently each shop runs from another. Um, and so, um, I guess one question that comes to mind with the approach that you're describing is, I'll give you two scenarios. One is, um, uh, a new technology and it, it fits like a glove to the way DPR works, but it's not as relevant to other shops.[00:21:00]
Um, and the, and scenario two is, um, you know, there's some value to DPR, but it's not a, it's not a slam dunk fit, but it has much broader application to, to the other shops that you compete with. Um, uh, from an investment standpoint, which one would you rather have in your portfolio?
Ben Price: Yeah, great question. I would say scenario one or the, the former is, is probably, and it, it is, I would say, nuanced slightly based on the actual volume. Um, but the best case is the, and is the most strategic value, which means something that we will use internally on the, the, the, um, most number of projects.
And so, uh, I think I view that it, it's kind of like leveraging the technology internally. There can be even more value than purely the, the financial return. Um, so it, it's, it's all, uh, it's a d- it's slightly difficult of a [00:22:00] question because it, it's nuanced based on the volume of use internally, um, versus externally.
But the internal strategic value or, or usage is, is first and foremost is, is our, our highest. Um, but we also are looking at, in general, it's one of the kind of core principles or focus, focuses for WND and DPR is driving forward construction as an industry. So both would be seen as a win, but I think, um, with a, a large focus on things that we can use, ways that we can help the company by deploying, deploying their technology internally.
Jason Jacobs: Mm-hmm. Um, another thing I've been hearing that especially in construction, you know, people are sick of, uh, shiny demos that, um, you know, that you can't trust in the field, um, and that where the rubber meets the road, uh, you know, aren't built for the workflows and the ways [00:23:00] that the shop is already running.
Um, uh, has it always been that way? Is it becoming more that way? Why is-- If so, why is it becoming more that way? And also, how do you ensure, um, you know, in a world where you should start at the workflows and work backwards when you decide what to build, like, how do you ensure that the body accepts the organ as you're evaluating external technology?
Ben Price: It's really difficult, and I would say this influx of AI for, you know, insert whatever, whatever use case, um Is making it that much more difficult to pilot, um, to pilot new things or run proofs, proofs of co- of concept. And basically, the situation today that we're seeing, and, and I would imagine other, other investors and other companies are, are seeing a lot of this, is it's almost weekly a new company comes out, um, with, you know, their, a- an AI-based approach [00:24:00] to automating something around the...
A, a lot of these are in pre-con or planning or, um, or, um, estimates. Um, so the, the difficulty is for a lot of these companies, in order to use them, it's, it's all about the data and making the data available. And, and so that becomes a, a question when talking to IT departments and, and, um, across the kind of data security side. Um, and so it's... we're at this point where, let's say, let's say there are 10 or, or 15 companies all doing one, one similar thing. We're not necessarily able to open up all of our data, all o- all of our doors to each one of those companies, um, to be able to fully kind of give them, uh, try, try out their, their solution. Um, so, so it's a, that piece I think for startups, [00:25:00] the ones that, uh, I think are, are getting the most traction are going with more of the wedge approach, as, as opposed to so getting very specific, asking for very small, um, or specific types of data or sources of data, um, as opposed to the, the emails that we will constantly get about, you know, "Hey, we... We're an AI tool that will look across your 25 platforms you're on, um, and connect all of the information." Uh, so I, I think it's something that y- it's, it makes it more complex right now, just the number of potential companies to work with and the number of integrations that each of them are requesting. Um, and so it makes it harder to, to run these initial pilot programs. The other piece that, that, um, that I'll share is with all of these different applications, um, it's a, it, [00:26:00] it can be difficult to... People are, are weary of a new sign-on and a new platform, and, you know, they have, um, already, you know, tens of, of different, different usernames and, and platforms. Um, and so it's something where we need to be selective, and that's a, I would say for CVCs in general, um, it's you never wanna push your business too far to where the, to the point of Um, you know, they, they don't wanna try these new things or they're inundated with, uh, new sign-ons or n- or new tools to try.
And so it's, it's kind of a delicate balance, um, of making sure that a- any new technology that we introduce, that it solves a valuable problem. Um, but that it's also, it's not too much of a, an ask or an uphill, um, request to, to get, get people to kind of adopt this new behavior and share various data with, with that, that solution.
Jason Jacobs: So if, if you had to guess, [00:27:00] I don't know if you know these numbers offhand, but I'm just trying to get at if, you know, if you look at the digital tooling, right? Um, at this point in time snapshot, what do you think the mix is of incumbent vendors, you know, the big players, upstart, you know, uh, startup vendors, and bespoke custom in-house tooling?
And then directionally, if you had to guess, um, and even if you don't use numbers, just in terms of like, like which one's gonna rise and which one's gonna fall, like what does that look like in two years, three years, five years down the road for, for DPR?
Ben Price: Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, it's such a quickly growing ... The, the startups and the homegrown solutions, there are so many popping up. Um, I don't know if I have a breakdown or percentage-wise. I, I think, I mean, there are the large platforms that any GC is, is working with and is highly valuable, and then there's all of these bolt- bolt-on point solutions. The way I see the industry going is, [00:28:00] um, uh, I think towards consolidation. And, um, um, uh, I mean, a, a recent example is a, a portfolio company of ours, DroneDeploy, and their, their recent, um, acquisition. Um, and so I, I think the- as these platforms, um, as the Autodesks and Procores and Nemecheck and, and, um, these platforms, um, continue to improve and continue to kind of add different AI solutions and capabilities, it will
Uh, one large component of that, I think, will be, and we're s- we've seen it to some extent, acquiring these startup companies. Um, but it, it is really interesting to me the whole kind of open ecosystem versus closed ecosystem and how that will, will work, where, you know, will, uh, will it be a, you're a Procore versus Autodesk and, and both are closed, and you can kinda pick your side? [00:29:00] Or I think what's better, my hope is, and, and is that, um, it continues to be a little more open ecosystem of various tools work across, um, across the multiple, uh, platforms. But, uh, that all, I think, remain- remains to be seen of how things will evolve there. But I, I think in the short term we'll see these different tools continue to be bought up, different high, high value point solutions be acquired by the, by the large, um, by the large platforms. And I think it, initially they'll keep them open and enable them to, to work with the other, the other platforms as well. Um-
Jason Jacobs: when we started this discussion, you mentioned self-performing as a, as a, as a, a, a key differentiator for DPR. Um, I know you meant that as it relates to, um, you know, stuff that some GCs subcontract out to, um, you know, to other skilled labor firms across the [00:30:00] trades. How do you think about self-performing as it relates to digital, if at all?
Ben Price: Yeah, so I, I think it's a massive advantage for a company like DPR, um, to be able to have all of these, all of these groups that are typically subcontracted out, to have them all under, under one roof, where they're on the sa- they have access to the same digital solutions. They can, can go back and f- there's, there's one less layer of kind of like company to company, and so that's where, uh, th- that part is exciting to me in terms of we're a great...
DPR is a great group to be able to pilot and help further develop different technologies because once we get the kind of buy-in, then we can have our, our more downstream... We can have our drywallers and our concrete and our electrical, um, and our equipment supply all logging into this same tool. [00:31:00] Whereas if it's, if it's disparate companies, um, then you, you have to go through your IT review and your adoption and your sign-ons, um, you know, for four or five different companies. So to me, that, that streamlines, and I, I think there's also... You can get feedback and, um, just kind of a more of a continuous loop when everybody's under, under one, uh, one company who's, who's working on a project
Jason Jacobs: So, so that-- so y-you answered-- I mean, your answer was interesting, uh, um, but it, it was a slightly different question than the one that I asked. I think you answered what's the benefit to external digital tools to work with a company that, um, uh, you know, that self-performs, uh, across a broad range of areas.
But my question was more, um, when it comes to digital, are you only looking externally for the creation of that digital tooling, or are you increasingly looking internally as well? And if you're looking internally, um, [00:32:00] uh, would there ever be a case where technology goes the other way on the digital side, where it gets baked internally and then spins out?
Ben Price: Definitely. Um, and I would say wide range of initiatives, you know, our innovation groups, our different, our different businesses, um, focusing on or, or kind of further developing different solutions for them to use. So I, I would say that that very much is a viable path. Um, and it's something that, um, h- and I'm trying to think if there are specific examples.
Um, there, uh, I think, I think there are some in the past. There's a, a robotics company that initially, um, a lot of the team came from DPR, and, um, uh, I would say in, in a sense sort of s- it was a, it was a spin out, um, that from, from DPR. And so I, I think there's, that definitely with any [00:33:00] innovation area or any kind of problem to solve, you have your various approaches to it. Um, and so that's the internal people trying to come up with a solution, that's looking externally. Um, in some cases, that could also be acquiring, uh, companies to, to fit, help meet, meet a, uh, fill a, a gap. So it's all, all of that I think is a part of the kind of overarching innovation that, that include where ventures is one component. Um, does that make sense? Does that address
Jason Jacobs: It, it, it does, yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to, um, I'm trying to ferret out... Like, to me, um, y- DPR aside, if I just look at the category more generally, it seems like, um, you know, these shops run real different from each other, and so there's a gap between the off-the-shelf software and the needs across the different workflows, both within a workflow and ac- and the glue across workflows.
So then you get, [00:34:00] um, uh, you know, individual contributors in these roles, whether it's estimators or project managers, et cetera, that are kind of taking matters into their own hands with Claude or ChatGPT to tune their own workflows, right? But it seems like there's a big white space between the off-the-shelf and that kind of bottoms up with the individuals, which is how do you take that kind of single player optimization and make it more kind of enterprise-wide and cohesive across the organization with privacy and controls and enterprise scalability and, um, uh, and things like that.
So I look at, it seems like some shops, like take Suffolk for example, they're putting four deployed engineers on every project site. But that's one of the things I'm thinking about is, like, how do you fill in that white space in between and across workflows? And so that's what I was trying to suss out is what's the DPR approach, and also is it the innovation team that does that and just comes back to you and gives you kind of a punch list, or is that something, um, that on [00:35:00] the W&A-- D- WND Venture side you guys are involved with as well?
Ben Price: Yeah.
Okay, that, that makes a lot of sense, and it's a, i- it's increasingly complicated because the speed of development of AI solutions, where, you know, the month to month, the capabilities are completely different. Um, I would say something unique to DPR is projects have options and can choose different technology, can choose their technology stack. So it's not a company that when you come to DPR, it's you will use this, you know, here, here's your tech stack and, and, um, run with this. There is that flexibility, so different people will create their own, you know, go, uh, their, their own solutions and use that for their project. It's, uh, the piece that we always look for is the, whether it's homegrown or whether it's a startup, uh, technology or any ty- any type of solution that people are using, it's you wanna create [00:36:00] your kind of like raving fans internally, and then it starts to spread like wildfire across projects. Um, so there are... So for, for a given use case, there can be a homegrown solution, there can be a startup solution, there can be an, a large incumbents solution to that, and people have the option across the company. But the more successful that the deployment is, it's, it's shared and talked about, um, and then that's how that supports further adoption. Um, and another piece that DPR is doing to, to help, uh, support all of this is, um, there, this, um, there's a AI kind of like adoption or support type of role across each of our, each of our work groups. Um, and so that's somebody or, or that's an organization that's specifically focused on looking at the different things people are using and helping to advise everybody over, um, you know, around what, what [00:37:00] solutions are best, what options they have. Um, so, uh, I'd say that's the unique s- the unique approach of DPR is very much project-driven. Um, but, uh, and that also, I think, it, it almost replicates kind of like the broader construction industry, where, um, because each project can make their own decision, e- every t- team members can decide on, on what technology to use, um, it's, i- it's a good way to, uh, to kind of like track the adoption internally of different things.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, when you look externally at the construction tech landscape, uh, y- on one extreme you could say it's totally saturated, it's noisy, there's 100, you know, tools competing for every single micro workflow, um, and, uh, no stone is left unturned. On the other, you can s- you could make the case that, uh, you know, the other extreme is that it's super nascent and there might be a lot of noise out there, but from an adoption [00:38:00] and realizing value standpoint, like, you know, the fruit isn't nearly ripe.
We're, we're just getting started. It's the, you know, it's the inning one of a, of a long game. Um, what do you see?
Ben Price: I see, I'd say more, more so the latter, and I think, uh, it, it's, uh, I, I tend to be more, um, kind of, uh, optimistic about the future and, uh, and the way that, that AI and technology in general will, will continue to evolve, um, where it's like cer- certain areas we're just starting. There's a lot of these great point solutions that are out there that are just starting to, to solve a problem, and we're a few iterations and, and versions away from those kind of like entirely solving, um, the, the certain areas.
So if, if we look at right now, there's this, uh, I'd say within, within the pre-con space, there's a large amount of different startup companies that do everyth- uh, the full kind of range of [00:39:00] things. I think eventually the holy grail of that is you have one solution that can do the entire pre-con stack from your architecture plans. We're definitely not there, uh, yet. There are a lot of solutions that do a great job at, um, you know, one specific element of that. Um, but i- it's a... So I, I think that's just, that's a perfect example of it, where on one hand you look and, y- you know, there's 50 companies focused on that, that space that all have had successful pilots, are working with top GCs and, and working across multiple projects. Um, but on the, on the other hand, we're still a ways away from kind of having that very much automa- automated or at least have the, the ability to, to automate, um, large portions of, of the workflow
Jason Jacobs: Uh, when you look at AI as a, [00:40:00] um, you know, potentially transformative technology, what type of transformation do you think it will bring about in construction? Do you see it as more of a sustaining innovation that can lead to some, you know, kind of incremental efficiencies across workflows and, you know, meaningful progress, but not necessarily, you know, dramatically shifting how these shops are run and how people work, right?
Or do you see it as more, um, uh, disruptive and, and if so, in what ways and, and, and how might shops evolve in the future?
Ben Price: Yeah. So I, I don't see a world... I'll s- I'll tell you what, I don't see a world where it's no humans and it's just, you know, robots building buildings. Um, I think it will continue to... It will increasingly augment all of the, the work that, that humans are doing. So everything from the planning and, and, um, that side of, of things [00:41:00] to on-site, and I'm, I'm really excited about robotics and, and, um, the, the kind of like physical, physical AI and, and automation in general. Um, I wou- I would say the, um, that basically, um, the quality, the efficiency, the safety, um, that tho- those areas are, are going to be dramatically improved. Um, but that, that I think it's always, these AI solutions are always kind of work alongside, work hand-in-hand with, um, with people, uh, on the job site or, or, or planning.
And I'll give an example of that where, um, the... let's say we're talking about robotics on the job site. So one of the kind of like flashy areas that people talk about, um, is this, is drywall finishing r- robots. Um, really exciting technology, you know, hugely manual [00:42:00] process. Um, if, if a large portion of that can be automated through robotics, I think that's a, a massive implications on the, the timing and, and the costs and, and everything. Um, but that's still, if you look at the companies there, they're still in s- in development in, i- in some sense. Um, and so we're not yet, you know... The... It's been probably a decade since the first few companies started focusing on that, and we're still not there to... We're still not at a point where we're setting the robot up and, you know, they're doing all the drywalling. Um, and so I, I think that's just an example, and now you have robotics moving faster than ever. You can use AI to, to, you know, run, run these sim- simulations to cut your development time and, and all of that. But, um, it... I think that's just a clear example of it still is a curve of adoption, [00:43:00] and there still will be kind of the, the human decision piece, the human, um, uh, kind of, or I guess humans augmented by robots and, and AI, um, on...
across all of, all of these areas. So, uh, yeah. I view it as tools that will dramatically increase the, the productivity and increase the safety and all of that, but not, not kind of like full replacements or full automation of, of construction.
Jason Jacobs: And f- for the firms that are, um, you know, leaning hard into this area, especially the, you know, the larger firms like, like you guys, w- what do you think is going to be the distinction between the ones that in hindsight will be viewed as pioneers that helped define the future of, um, you know, of, of the industry versus the ones that end up chasing shiny things and trends and end up getting egg on their face and putting tail-- their tail [00:44:00] between their legs and going back to, you know, the tried and true ways that things have always been done?
Ben Price: Yeah, I think it's being open to new solutions and even kind of even mid-pilot, you're working on, on one thing, you need to still keep your eyes open and see what others are, are developing. So I think that's a really important element. And, and I think it's also, it's ju- it's about, um, thoughtfully rolling out different technologies and not committing to not one pilot and then we force everybody to use this across the company. I, I think it's going kind of pilot by let's try it on this, this type of project and that, then let's replicate to a larger pool of projects. Um, so I think that incremental adoption can be, can be really important, and it can help companies from getting too, um, kind of, uh, focused on, on a one specific solution, uh, as opposed to k- having their eyes open.
And, and [00:45:00] that, I say that because of the speed, uh, the rate in which, um, technology's changing and e- even in a given, given area looking at, at startup companies, one month, one company will be a leader in one, one capacity, and a month later, um, the, it will be an entirely new, new company that leads in, in that function, um, who maybe didn't, didn't even have a product, um, focused on it the month before.
So
Jason Jacobs: Uh, is there a pilot playbook? Like how much of it is cookie cutter as you evaluate different technologies, um, in, in different parts of the organization? Um, you know, is it a similar process and are there similar cri- success criteria, um, from pilot to pilot or, um, uh, or is every case different?
Ben Price: That's something we're working on, how to add metrics and scorecards and really turn this art into more of a scientific thing. [00:46:00] Um, and so it, it's something we have a few examples on recent investments that we're working on where we've built out these, um, y- looking at, so looking at the pre-con tech stack.
We bu- we built out, um, this, or, or the teams have built out this, um, it's like over 200 variables to, to rank and look at when looking at a, a dif- some solution. Um, and so I, I think that is a good, i- it's... There's the, there's the softer side of do people love this solution? Is this saving them time? Is it valuable and something they wanna, wanna use going forward? And then there is the more metrics and the this is how much time it saved, or this is what, this is the value and how it stacks up against others. Um, so I, I think it's all about balancing them, but we're spending a lot of time i- in formalizing our due diligence process, our review process, how to compare different things.
Um, and, and so, uh, [00:47:00] I think having some element of that, it, it adds a lot of clarity and it, it helps especially at a time like now when it, it feels like there's more startups, um, you know, our pipelines are, are... We have more in the pipeline than, than in, in the past.
Jason Jacobs: And do, do you have a, a burning wish list in terms of specific areas that you're excited to investigate and find solutions for?
Ben Price: It's a very wide range, um, so it's tough to give specifics, but I'll, I'll share one uni- so, uh, I mean, all things automation in the field. I think, uh, uh, the robotic space in general, I, I'm, I've always been, I've been really excited about and, and it's great to see that as kind of a mainstream focus of, you know, the past eight or so years, um, ha- have had its ups and downs and some tough times for, for robotic startups.
And, and so right now seeing mainstream attention there is, is pretty exciting. Um, I, I think the, the AI solutions, [00:48:00] all of these point solutions are improving, and, um, uh, so really excited about kinda that, that path on the, the pre-con and planning and, and even design side. Um, the all things prefab, a- anything prefab and helping drive that forward, it aligns very much with a, a core focus of, of DPR. Um, and then another area that, that I'm excited about, and, and this goes back connecting kinda on my, on my background and, and my time looking at more deep tech companies, is permanent fixtures. And so not just looking at... So traditionally your GC's invested in and looked at, um, purely, um, construct- your, like, tried and true construction tech. Um, but, uh, we are shifting or we're, we're increasing our focus to things that can be installed, so let's say on a data center, um, different permanent fixtures that DPR can help spec into a project or, uh, or can help [00:49:00] become an expert at installing, and then, and then it's a permanent fixture up there for, for the, um, for the data center.
So I think that's a whole new category. So that's things like, uh, things across electricity, so generation, storage, transmission o- of power. Then it's heating and cooling technologies. Um, it's a, a wide ra- even the, uh, everything down to the digital side and the security systems and, and, um, so very wide range of, of types of solutions that are relevant in the building stage but then also are relevant into operations, um, over the, the, the lifetime of, of the asset.
Jason Jacobs: Ben, for anyone listening who's got a startup that is interested in learning more about working with, um, DPR and/or WND Ventures, what advice do you have for them in terms of, um, you know, the, the right stage, uh, to be, [00:50:00] um, engaging with you and also the right means to, um, you know, to start a dialogue with the firm?
Ben Price: That's great. Yeah, so we have website, LinkedIn, um, can track down our, our email addresses a- as well, um, which are, uh, I think all, all on there. So there's, there's intake forms. Um, I, I would say first and foremost, it's have a... Identify an issue or a gap and make sure that it, your solution solves, solves that or points to, to that gap. Um, and so, uh, I th- a- and tied to that, um, and to WND Ventures specifically, it's we like to engage once there's something. There has to be a product that we can, can run a proof of concept with. So we need something that we can actually get out there and try. Um, and, and then from there, we're excited to work with the companies, potentially invest and, and, and move forward. So that's the find a real [00:51:00] problem or challenge, have something that will make, will be easy to, um, to adopt. Um, and then I, I would also just say to keep in mind the data piece, that large companies like DPR, the other large GCs are not able to just open up their doors and share all, all data. And so if that's an important component of the solution, uh, it's important to get creative, have a wedge approach, have something more specific where you can prove value without requiring a, a company to open, open up all its data.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, that, well, that's great insight. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did, or any parting words you'd like to leave with listeners?
Ben Price: uh, this, this was great. I think we covered, covered a lot of ground, so yeah, appreciate the discussion and, and, um, yeah, this was great. Thanks for having me
Jason Jacobs: That's it for this episode of BuiltForward. I hope you enjoyed it. If you found it useful, share it with someone building in the industry [00:52:00] and follow the show so you don't miss what's next. Thanks for listening and see you next week